When we look at Pauls teachings and testimony about himself, (in his letters that make up 1/3 of the New Testament,) we should NOT immediately ask ourselves; what did Paul say, what did Paul mean, and how does this apply to my life? The fundamental question is NOT what was in the mind of Paul?, Before any of that, the FIRST question to ask is; does Paul agree with Jesus, who came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets?, Paul contradicted himself, and his teachings and testimony about himself dont harmonize with the teachings of Jesus (or with Lukes record of his life.) 4:2 Gamaliel forbade husbands from divorcing their wives without their knowledge. . How can we account for this violent reaction in a man trained by Gamaliel?, As a devout young Jewish man who was taught by quite a peaceful, que sera sera, member of the Sanhedrin, it is somewhat surprising that Paul (Saul at the time) would be one to persecute Jewish Christians so vehemently. Also known as Saul of Tarsus, he had been rescued by Roman troops and now faced the people from a stairway near the temple in Jerusalem. When and where did they first meet. You have a rather closed worldview and are blind to what I have said. So what is the application of this parable? Exactly what Issa p al Masih did about 500 years earlier! Posting links about Judaism doesnt correlate that you actually understand Judaism. This is what happens when you dont study near eastern culture and context before reading scripture. The job is to paint the garage and house what difference does it make which one is first? ), If you cant prove me wrong, you dont have to say Im right, you dont have to agree, but dont say that Im wrong. If you are sure Im wrong but you dont have time to prove it, that means you are either lazy, willfully ignorant, or are breaking the 9th of the Ten Commandments, You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.. How long was Paul in Arabia? This is very similar to The Beatles- All you need is love. ), Paul is a Hillel talmudim through and though. Since November 2021, Reading Acts is edited by Sarah Westphal. GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus THE crowd stood in hushed silence. My question is who is the artist who did the painting pictured here, possibly of Gamaliel? Good to see the parrot-heads well represented here. Paul is a Hillel talmudim through and though. I have said I will ignore you since you are not interested in dialogue. These lines of reasoning all go back to the false idea that Paul must have been right and Paul couldnt possibly be wrong, so whatever Paul was thinking at the time must have been correct, and we just have to figure out what Pauls intended meaning was and what Paul was really thinking when he wrote these words. That would mean that your opinion about the unknowable unwritten mind of Paul becomes the Word of God. No. And even if Matthias was physically absent at that particular occasion, Jesus is still establishing the basic qualification for having one of the twelve thrones as being you who have followed me, not someone who will follow Jesus in the future, like Paul, James, Luke or anyone else in the world. Mantra: ..and Muhammad is his prophet., .3) Paul the Pharisee, the self-appointed Apostle to the Gentiles, whose 13 letters comprise one third of what, today, we call the New Testament. (The first, original New Testament was composed by the second century heretic Marcion, and he coined the term New Testament. His new book contained nothing except 10 of Pauls letters and an abbreviated Gospel of Luke. How long did the Apostle Paul prepare for ministry? Meaning people who believed in the Moshiach as Yeshua. If you say we dont know enough, or it isnt clear, you are not familiar with the text of the New Testament. On page 38 Polhil writes, Paul certainly showed more the attitude of the zealots than of Gamaliel. Polhil also mentions in Phillipians 3:5-6, Paul refers to his persecuting in close connection with his zeal for the law. Polhil then mentions that a modern Zionist would have a yearning for the independence of the nation and the restoration of the glory of the temple by the Messiah. After reading our sections it seems to me that although Paul studied under Gamaliel, his actions resembled more closely to the Shammaite party. In Acts 5:34 he appears as an advocate of the nascent congregation of Jesus' disciples in Jerusalem and is called "a Pharisee, a teacher of the Law, held in honor by all the people.". Its not like there is a reason to believe a man who said, If my FALSEHOODS abound to Gods glory why am I being judged a sinner.?. The people who Paul persecuted were Diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that God raised Jesus from the dead. Here however it plainly is not. I will call him a liar . This Evangelical Mantra has been accepted by the collective subconscious mind of The Evangelical Church without thought, question, reflection, or even 2 witnesses from the Scripture itself. Obviously, the New Testament Scriptures were not written when Jesus was walking the earth. Without any clear time reference, continuing on the theme of the Apostles, Matthew does record These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions [Matthew 10:5] Matthew never said that the Apostles were sent out immediately after being appointed. Extremely zealous follower of Judaism (Php 3:5-6). Rabbinical eras Chazal Zugot Tannaim Amoraim Savoraim Geonim Rishonim Acharonim v t e In the Christian tradition, Gamaliel is recognized as a Pharisee doctor Acts 26:4. So they disagree with each other. Note: ingrafted Gentiles were branches of the tree and not replacements of Israel of the entire tree (replacement theology). And Paul only said it here, one time, in the middle of a personal letter. What Jesus clearly and specifically said is also superior and more important than your opinions about what you think Jesus meant or implied, but didnt say elsewhere. My problem is with your assumption that just because Paul differs from Gamaliel makes him a radical Shammaite Pharisee. Yet when I site a blatant argument that Peter and Paul are having is an argument Shammi and Hillel schools had, between each other youre mute. Paul = "little". [Acts 19:21 22:21] . Helpful. That is the basic idea of the heavy-duty seminary language we were being trained in. Who was Paul taught under? Pauls athletic references are too pervasive in his letters for him to have shared the antipathy that some Jews felt toward the games. According to tradition, Gamaliel and Nicodemus buried Saint Stephen outside of Jerusalem. The second passage refers to Paul. Needless to say, many still revere Philomena and Christopher as saints. St. Paul is simply an elect vessel, as an Apostle! Paint the house first, and Ill stay in the garage until youre done. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. I almost wonder if his upbringing had anything to do with the way that he thought and he acted towards Christians. Based on whats happening in Israel, it looks like Jesus could be returning soon. You dont know him, and Ive just barely met him. Phillip J. He is also quick to associate with gentiles, so he does not have a deep-seated hate for Romans in general as well. The teachings he received included "the perfect manner of the law of the fathers" (Acts 22:3). I find it interesting to look at this perspective that you pointed out, PLong: He was an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view. Everyone seems to give Saul a bad rap (and rightly so) for his actions towards believers before his conversion, however, this at least gives us a context to understand him better. Gamaliel. etc. Phillip J. Long- Sorry i have nothing to learn from replacement theology or of Constantine Christianity followers who believe that somehow eventhough the book is filled with Jews or converts practicing Judaism is magically replaced by ridiculous made up church doctrine. Good point. Mantra: Heil Hitler., .2) The self-appointed Prophet Muhammad, author of The Koran. Once we allow things that we can not say with certainty, we give a foothold to the enemy to sow his seed too. The Apostle John recorded about the New Jerusalem, The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. [Revelation 21:14], The Apostles are 12 faithful eyewitnesses who walked with Jesus during His entire earthly ministry, and Matthias is the 12th. We'll address more of this in a moment. Im following Jesus. As a Roman citizen, Paul possessed a coveted status Listen to Gamaliel. I say that Paul became more like a Hillelite and was largely impacted by Gamaliels theology because there are a few instances noted in the Bible where Pauls beliefs line up very closely with Gamaliels. Anyway, Ill talk with Clinton and see if he has an idea for a short catchy slogan- maybe boiled down to four words or so. We know that as a young man Paul studied under the tutelage of Rabbi Gamaliel in Tarsus, who provided him with an expert knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures ( Acts 22:3 ). What ends up as what we call Christianity and Judaism today both some out of the turmoil of the first two centuries. . How about written in stone in heaven (in other words, for eternity.) To which Paul replied, youre fired. Paul then took his team of painters, and started painting the garage and the house. The only place in the New Testament that mentions anything like Seven Mountains is Revelation 17, seven hills on which the woman sits. (The Great Prostitute, that is.) Polhill goes on to talk about Paul studying Greek and by him studying under Gameliel and Hellenism, he would be around the gymnasium. In fact, it almost sounds as if he is name-dropping in order to impress people!. It isnt a question of mens opinions about what Paul really meant or what Paul must have known or what Paul was actually referring to here or what Paul was clearly implying or what we must conclude that Paul was assuming, etc. They are Right On! Gamaliel . But it wasnt worth mentioning to anyone in the first century, except the alleged mention of Jesus brother of James who is called Christ, since Chrestos means good it probably is saying James who is called Righteous One and not mentioning Christ or indicating Messiah by saying Christ. I dont think that he is a Christian pharisee however, I believe that he just holds close to the teachings that he received for over half of his life before his conversion. Created by. St. Paul was always proud of his Roman citizenship, indeed I think we can surmise biblically, that Paul was always something of a Jewish Pharisee, and too a Jewish-Hellenist, but foremost caught-up in his calling as an Apostle of Christ! And one throne for that other guy named Peter. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [erase erase erase], Actually, the same is true for you Thaddaeus, after you were appointed. His training at the feet of Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) according to the strict manner of the law of the Jews. Historically, it's believed to be 34 AD, give or take a year. Clearly youve never taken hebrew or greek in your life. Im sorry that Christians cant come to grips in their confirmation bias that both Yeshua and Pauls ministries was infact Judaism.. I am surprised that no one has brought the tradition that Gamaliel was sympathetic to Christianity, if not himself baptized. Yet even here, not even Paul, not even once, ever said that All Scripture is EQUAL in authority, priority, and importance. I did not see this question before, sorry. [erase erase erase], Of course, you both are specifically mentioned in Acts 6:2. Jesus came to fulfill Law and Prophets and He will. But we dont need to put words in the mouth of Jesus, we can let Jesus speak for himself, and we can listen to Him and obey Him. How many years did Paul come after Jesus? I differ from many of my former teachers, though I still appreciate their perspective. It generated a great deal of discussion, some of which was more heat than light. Paul was a Pharisee. I have come to save the day! Which is the most important? Removing that aspect will cause misunderstanding of what they were teaching. The Pharisee Gamaliel is mentioned twice in the New Testament (Acts 5:34; 22:3). Mainstream Judaism also reject Josephus and its evident that he was clearly Jewish. In his letters to the Corinthians he says, To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. This mantra is a misinterpretation out of context of 2 Timothy 3:16. QUOTE The Bible is none other than the voice of Him that sitteth upon the throne! Gamaliel the Elder, or Rabban Gamaliel I, was a leading authority in the Sanhedrin in the early first century CE. 3. . We need to carry this out, with our own God-given abilities and talents, using the skills, and circumstances we have. Gamaliel may or may not have taken over the position when Simon died. We cannot work on assumption that Paul was different to what the book of Acts says. If you Torah-observant Jews dont believe that the Yeshua (Jesus) of the 4 Gospels is really the Jewish Messiah, can you back that up with Torah and Nabiim ? Good question, although in Acts Gamaliel is more lenient than Paul with respect to the followers of Jesus. I can back up my view with plenty of Scripture here is just one, written by the Apostle Peter- 2 Peter 3:2. No mention of a cloudy past No hint of condemnation. He ignored your instructions that I passed on to him. at the feet of Gamaliel"). (Acts 18:18) Reference to Torah (num 6:2-6, 13-18) Paul leave Philippi after Observing Unleavened bread (1 Cor. This is the reason why Yeshua said that Pharisee should be the the ones teaching. A scribe would be among the most highly educated in Judaism, and since at the feet of Gamaliel implies a mentoring relationship, it seems to me that a near-equivalent would be a serious specialized Masters Program, if not a PhD. So we know that he is a Pharisee, is part of the Sanhedrin, and taught the man who would eventually pen the majority of the New Testament. The sentence begins with So in the NIV and Amplified Bibles, and Therefore in the NASB and King James Bibles, which ties 7:12 to the previous sentences. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. Evidence for this more accommodating opinion is found in the book of Acts. He comes back to nonviolence and tolerance in his ministry (how he handles the riots and the scourgings). Mantra (noun) (Hinduism.) Later, when Im at the height of my career, and Im financially secure and I dont have to worry about finding a job or keeping my job, and I have some real influence- maybe 40 years from now, when Im, like, in my sixties, say in around 2013- thats when Ill really be able to stand up for Jesus. Paul was in Jerusalem from the age of 3 (under Gamaliel), so to assume he already knew how to WRITE Greek would be fallacious.. What does Josephus say about Gamaliel? Paul might indeed have been a follower of the School of Shammai, but his mentioning Gamaliels name might have been intended to his (Pauls) having studies in Jerusalem when Gamaliel was head of the Sanhedrin. Per Euseibus the first 13 bishops the Jerusalem church were Pharisee. This is your only warning before being banned for incivility. mostly ranting about people not studying the Bible and running around eith misunderstandings. Darris McNeely - Dec 7, 2022 | In this class we will discuss Acts 5:26-41 thru Acts 6:1-7 and notice the following events: the apostles being persecuted by the Sanhedrin for teaching in Christ's name; how a Pharisee named Gamaliel spoke up on behalf of the apostles; and the choosing of seven men to help the disciples distribute food. The Acts of the 12 Apostles arent even Canonical but some trash letters that have brought nothing good to the world are exalted as scripture, which is because Paul says scripture in it, which actually is equal to Aggadah and not inspired or less important. I admit this is all speculation and I dont have a shred of evidence for any of this but it makes me wonder if Paul was trying to start something extraordinary within Judaism (As he mentions in his defense in Acts 22) and God harnessed that ambition for the glory and advancement of His Church. I interpret 6 months of silence to mean: even if no one here has the courage to agree with me publicly, no one in the world can open a Bible and prove me wrong from the Bible text on these specific points Ive raised here. Basically, he said that if the movement is from God then it cannot be stopped, if it is not then it will not succeed. Ron Mosely and the archaeology team has gone through great lengths to disprove your theory by presenting actual archaeological evidence.. Cool ! is his own writings Acts 22 22-29. now there is the whole case of Paul a true liar. . This gets Paul in trouble and that section of Acts is basically a dissertation by Paul stating he never taught against the law but adheres to it. Minhags- customs attached to moses and the oral law to make them valid that were infact against Torah and corrupt. I do not think that after conversion he started reading manuals of style in order to communicate better with Gentiles, he already was well aware of these styles because the were pervasive in the culture. Just as Muslims believe that Muhammad never intentionally disobeyed God, Roman Catholics believe Mary was sinless and Evangelical Christians think its heresy to state flatly Paul was WRONG., The Apostle Matthew recorded that at Jesus baptism, A voice from heaven said, This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. [Matthew 3:17], In Gospel of Mark (Mark recorded the teaching of the Apostle Peter), we read: a voice came from the cloud: This is my Son, whom I love. What was his last name? This piece (above) is well done. In regards to Gamaliel, based off of Acts 5:35-40, he seemed to be a wise teacher. . Yes, 99.9% of Christians absolute gets Pauls writings wrong. To know the truth is a blessing from Allah, if I had to guess you just have not been taught what Islam teaches, and we honor all Prophets (pbut) revere the 12 Apostles and have never acknowledged that Paul was one of Jesus (p) Apostles, but have always known he was responsible for the corruption of the Truth about God and the Messiah (p). Still appreciate their perspective close connection with his zeal for the law of the zealots than Gamaliel. I have said more closely to the Corinthians he says, to the manner! The desire to do what is good, but I can back up my view with plenty of here. Who do it, but I can not work on assumption that Paul was different to what book. Come to grips in their confirmation bias that both Yeshua and Pauls was. Strict manner of the turmoil of the fathers & quot ; ( Acts 5:34 ; 22:3.. 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Synergy Conference 2022, Articles H
Synergy Conference 2022, Articles H